TJ's Silent Blog!!! Where is my grape jelly????

Shipping Damage & Insurance

I wanted to start this because this is the area where I get the most negative.  5 out of  6 of my negative have to do with customer who does not purchase insurance  and expect me to refund them.  I find customer who choose not to purchase insurance will find every way possible to say it is my responsibity even down to the mode of my shipping as my recent negative feedback and I have proof that she did not received her items because MA USPS (routing to NH) had damage the package and the products came out of the package.  I was told by my post office what may have happen was the machince was jam and several or many package got damage and all the products came out and they didn't know who belong to which.  When that happen USPS send form with the enevolpe (they cut around return address, receipt address and postage) and asked me what was in the package and hoping to recover it to send to receipt.  But this customer was upset because it was send to parcel when it was over 14 oz which was over couple of oz.  She wanted to be send to 1st class or priority (which she did not pay for).  She felt that if I send it 1st class or priority, this would never happen.  I try to tell her it doesn't matter which method I shipped because I see damage happen to first class, parcel and even priority.  I had USPS damaged their flat rate priority box. 

The reason I wanted to start this blog is I want to hear from seller and buyer.  I want seller and buyer to understand each side.  I want to hear stories from other seller what they went thru when buyer didn't buy insurance and what happen and I also want to hear from buyer if you ever have damage to your package rather you have purchase insurance or not.  I want the buyer to explain their damage and what their opinion to make packaging better or if it is really USPS fault.  Such as, one times, I got damage package from USPS and it show a tire track!!!! I want buyer who not sure if they want to purchase insurance or not to know that damage do happen.   I am finding with the blizzard storm across the US that there is more complaint with shipping damage and loss with airplanes being grounded and trucks going the storm.  I have heard stories from customer about their package that was damage from someone else and they purchase insurance. 

Let share our stories so that we all can understand each other and other side.  Myself as a buyer on ebay, I do not always purchase insurance but I know if it come damage, it is my responsiblity and not the seller.  I know this because my experience as seller and I know USPS damage our package and I know it is a risk to not purchase insurance.  I also know before I became a seller, I never knew that I couldn't trust USPS.  So I wanted someone was like me before I became a seller and learned from experience to learn from other experience and realize these things happen! 

bizzy*beez
I'm a seller..and yes, no matter whether the buyer has purchased insurance or not, you as the seller, are responsible for getting that item there. If it gets damaged or lost, the right thing to do is to replace/refund.

The insurance is more for the seller's protection.
Feb-26-07 14:42:07 PST Report this comment
victorian_rose_inc
I include insurance on everything that I send out. I do not give the buyer a choice. Even if it is not stated in my listing the package(s) are insured. And it does not matter if the item is the lowest or the highest dollar amount in my store.
Feb-26-07 14:43:33 PST Report this comment
bizzy*beez
Oh, and yes, I do have experience with a buyer receiving an item where the packaging was damaged. She did not purchase insurance, but I did offer her a refund, which she did not take.
Feb-26-07 14:44:14 PST Report this comment
littlecelticgirl
I never purchase insurance...because I do not need it! I pay via paypal and that is my protection. I see a number of sellers state in their auction "I offer insurance - not responsible for lost or damaged items" HOWEVER, it is a moot point if you also accept paypal as that offers buyers protection - and you ARE responsible! I had a seller refuse me a refund last week for an item that was damaged - she told me that was her auction terms...I politely reminded her how I paid...and no matter what she said, she was forced to give me the refund.
You might want to check paypal terms and conditions as they do indeed make you resposible!
Feb-26-07 14:54:14 PST Report this comment
stopbuythursday
I agree with the above I think sellers misinterpret the option to have buyers pay for insurance.

Insurance isnt optional for great customer service for the seller it is optional if the seller wants the buyer to pay for it or not.
Feb-26-07 14:54:26 PST Report this comment
littlecelticgirl
oh...and as a seller, if the item is kinda pricey and they refuse insurance - I pay for it anyways, as it is for MY protection not the Buyers as I too only take paypal!
Feb-26-07 14:55:23 PST Report this comment
bizzy*beez
I'm curious about your latest negative fb. You said that you couldn't ship it 1st Class because it exceeded the weight, but in the item description on the shipping calculator, you do offer 1st Class. If you put in the correct weight when you wrote up the item description, and it exceeded the weight limit for 1st Class, it won't let you put 1st Class on the SYI form.

I can see now why your buyer expected the item to be mailed 1st Class. She went by the shipping calculator and whatever was on her invoice.
Feb-26-07 15:05:05 PST Report this comment
hotstylecar
How does the insurance process work? Do you give the refund and the post office and they reimburse you or does the seller make a insurance claim? How big of a process is it in itself? Wow after little girl celtic, I think I just got a wake up call to add insurance no matter what LOL
Feb-26-07 15:14:45 PST Report this comment
champwearshirts
Yes Pay Pal does suck for us sellers .. Buyers win every time .. so just do not accept paypal for very expensive items or any thing over $150
Feb-26-07 15:17:29 PST Report this comment
tjsttng
I do not use shipping calculator anymore. I use to used it before but it will mess up the shipping discount. The customer ended up paying more and they did not get their discount. I got tired of angry customers when they try to pay and found out the shipping price was not accurate. I tried to fix it but I couldn't get it to accept $1.50 discount and got tired of manually changing all the invoices. Also, Paypal also protect seller. One had a damage package but it show that the package was deliver to her place. She try to get the refund back but she could not as I had a deliver confirmation stated it was deliver. Paypal will not refund back if USPS show it have been deliver. It is a risk to the seller if chose not to use deliver confirmation. I will be using it again thru paypal when I get new printer. So for seller if you have deliver confirmation number, you are protected from paypal but if you do not, refund will be giving back. This is not 100% protection to buyer if seller use deliverly confirmation number. There are people out there that will take advantage of seller and say not received but deliverly confirmation said deliver. I had that happen many time and I was protected several times. Terrianne
Feb-26-07 15:18:04 PST Report this comment
littlecelticgirl
If you take insurance and the item arrives broken, you can indeed start the claim process but if is best left to the buyer as they will need to take pics or present the damaged item to their local PO when they file a claim.
If the item never arrives, then you can file the claim.I put insurance on items that go above $35 - $40 even if the buyer chooses not to take it , but under that, delivery confirmation is also a good tool if the item is not breakable. This is cheaper and though not insurance, it allows you to know that the buyer received the item so they cannot claim it did not turn up - and if they did , but DC shows it arrives, you will not be forced to refund under paypal!
Good luck!
Feb-26-07 15:18:33 PST Report this comment
tjsttng
This is how the insurance work. The seller is responsible to add the insurance from the post office. They pay extra fees to have the package insure. The fee is based on the value of your products. The lowest fees is $1.35. The seller fill out form and pay to add the insurance. But there have been times when I didn't purchase insurance for seller because I didn't see that they have purchase and the package was damage, then it is my responsiblity to replace or refund as the buyer did purchase insurance but I didn't purchase it from USPS. This have happen one time for me. When customer tells me that package was damage, first things I look is to see if they purchase insurance. The PO will have the seller fill out the form to get the refund. In my case with the last one, she did not purchase insurance but I got notification for USPS about the damage and they didn't know what products belong to who. The form said if products is not recover then postage will be refunded but not products if insurance was not purchase.
Feb-26-07 15:27:07 PST Report this comment
garren4
The use of ebay is risk/benefit trade off. The benefits are obvious, selection, price, convenience, etc. The risks include buying a product that you do not see first hand and HAVING THE ITEM SHIPPED.
If a seller makes a reasonable effort to pack an item safely and the package is mishandled en route, it is hardly fair to blame the seller. (Of course, the seller has a very real responsibility to pack an item well) Once the package is mailed, the seller cannot control what happens to it though.
The real issue is that Ebay is somewhat unique as a marketplace. Most people choose Ebay because of the deals. What will happen if sellers assume the cost of shipping errors and damage, which are beyond their control, is their prices will rise to cover this cost. (It is basic microeconomics; when a seller refunds a buyer for a lost or damaged item it effectively raises their cost of doing business)
This will result in an overall rise in prices until all those great deals are gone, gone, gone. . .
If a buyer is not willing to accept the risk inherent in having an item mailed and doesn’t want to purchase insurance, perhaps they should be shopping in a more traditional retail environment.
Feb-26-07 15:40:34 PST Report this comment
o.c.d.collectibles
I am a big sport. I pay for the insurance myself. it's a big expense paying that $1.35 and I'm sure it might even bankrupt me if I continue paying for it like that...but my stuff is covered, no one can complain of it breaks or gets lost I can give them the insurance number and paypal and ebay will back me up. The buyer will have to file the forms, and I also have proof of delivery by paying for delivery confirmation. So scammers can't try to pull one over on me either! I must say...I haven't had any negatives from any buyers since I adopted this policy and it is a good selling promo for bidders to buy my stuff!
Feb-26-07 17:06:49 PST Report this comment
littlecelticgirl
$1.35 is NOTHING...if you NEED it, but when you have done over 500 transactions as a buyer...that little $1.35 becomes $675! Not a huge sum...BUT money down the drain when you know you were covered already! Also your $1.35 buys you USPS insurance which may or may not side with you...in my recent case I would have been two weeks into a possible 10 week + claim to get my money back from a seller who did not use packaging protection - as opposed to three days with paypal!! Do you really think it is right that I pay for insurance so I do not bother a seller who cannot be bothered to package correctly?? This does not apply to all sellers of course - but hey if you purchase insurance...why should all sellers care - its not their responsibility...after all...you paid to file paperwork with USPS...so its out of their hands!! Of course a seller wants you to take insurance!
It is the SELLERS responsibility to get the item to you in one piece when they take PAYPAL - if they do not like that - find another website to sell or another payment method such a MO or check - then you are fine! Otherwise this is Paypal policy. And of course a seller is going to suggest a buyer should never claim - as a seller, I would love a buyer that says "oh well - my fault, I did not take insurance" but if DC shows they did not get it...I took paypal - I refund, not fun...but a small price to pay for good feedback which in turn increases sales!
At the end of the day...the thing that most often dictates our success on eBay as a seller is feedback - if paypal does not force you to refund then you do not have to pay it back...but the neg could end up costing more!
Feb-26-07 18:25:33 PST Report this comment
tjsttng
I did some investigating with Paypal. I discover that paypal will protect your products up to $1,000. If the items was deliver and was damaged, the seller are not resposible. You may be refunded but it is not being refunded thru the seller but rather by paypal. Paypal have policy to protect buyer when there is damage. This is protection for seller and why seller use paypal. Paypal are really great company. I grew to trust them even when some was refunded back because I did not have deliver confirmation. I find that they are honest and answer my questions when I have concern. They even gave back my money from 3 different buyers but they did not take it from the buyers but out of their account. They will not do this for me again, as they explain their policy about protection to buyer and not knowing that USPS receipt is not enough and told me that if I have deliver confirmation, I am safe. So if you won this debate, it didn't come from seller account but paypal. Also from seller point of view who had sell a lot and if it is $1.35 then it is $675 out of my pocket. I keep my shipping as low as I could go. My listing is excalt price I had pay and sometime, just make $1.00. There are other expenses that I need to be cover. People like to get their items as cheap as possible and I provide my products at the retail price. I find if I put shipping too high, buyer do not want to buy it so insurance become optional and they pay the excalt price of insurance. If I sell 500 transactions, that is $695.00 out of my pocket and not from the sales. Seller should be able to make some money. For example Avon Anew Ultimate Day Lotion is $30.00 and I sell it online for $6.99 plus $5.95. This is the retail price or sometime less if I am relisting. Buyer saved $17.05 and that doesn't include tax that Avon will include. So why buyer complain about purchasing $1.35 when they saved over $15.00. And seller need to lose money because they didn't make a lot money because selle
Feb-26-07 18:34:05 PST Report this comment
tjsttng
Also, I believe that each seller to allow the buyer to know their expection of insurance. If the seller add insurance to everything, then the seller need to state it. I myself allow the buyer to know if that if they do not purchase insurance then I am not responsible. The buyer know my expection and if they do not agree, I do not want them to bid on my product. But if someone read it and say "oh gee if it is damage then I know paypal will give me my money back so I not going to pay for insurance". This is where I believe it is dishonest. There are dishonest people who will take advantage of the seller because of this situation. When the buyer read my listing and see if they do not purchase insurance, then I am not responsible for damage or lost items. They should take the responsiblity to bid on my products. They should think, if this product get lost or damage and I didn't purchase insurance then I will accept the responsiblity or if they think they should not accept responsiblity then they should not bid and say paypal will protect me and I will not abide it. That is very dishonest. Damage will happen thru USPS and it is out of the seller's hand. I cannot go on the plane and hold the package to insure it doesn't get damage. I cannot go 150 different directions to be sure the package is not damage. It is not my responsiblity once it leave my hand. I don't know what the package went thru. One buyer said that USPS said it was my fault (she didn't purchase insurance), my USPS said it was secure and well-packaged. My USPS will always tell me if they felt not secure. Now, if it something wrong with products that have nothing to do with shipping damage then it is different. I will replace such as someone thought one of the products was open and used. So I send her another one and only to find out she think that the way it was suppose to be and it was her first and she said sorry. She was honest!! I only want honest people to buy my items and not "I'm not
Feb-26-07 18:48:40 PST Report this comment
sthrndeb
I am appalled that anyone would think that damage could not happen.

I am also speechless to think that one would say a seller is "screwed" if you pay by paypal, you get your money back anyway.

What are you thinking? Paypal will not refund if a seller has a delivery confirmation. Do buyers think we hand deliver their items? No one is perfect and things happen. Thank goodness I have only had 3 insistences out of over 1000 where this happened.

How on earth can you expect a seller to know if a package will be damaged? I think your expectations are to high. Anybody can say it was not delivered or damaged. That is why most sellers have a delivery confirmation in the shipping.

I had a lady try this 2 months after I shipped her item. She threatened me with a negative if I did not refund her money and insurance. Guess what? She did not take out insurance and my delivery confirmation said it was delivered. She did not file by paypal because she knew she would not win but left a neutral.

Now I ask you why would she wait two months to email me? I looked at her feedback and she tried this 4 other times with sellers.

I have also bought from a seller that did not send what they should have. I filed a claim after they would not answer me. Guess what I got? Nothing as there wasn't anything in there account. Don't be so quick to say paypal is your protection, it is not always.

Ok now I will step off my soap box but I agree with tjsttng. Most honest sellers do there best to get your package there safely. We WANT repeat customers and go above and beyond. But there are scammers on her also and I will not cow tow to them.
Feb-26-07 20:17:14 PST Report this comment
fata-morgana1
I do not pay insurance because I can see so much gouging going on shipping prices anyway. I have not seen crooked accounting like this since the Author Anderson company was busted. Some costs I can account for, some I can see were outright fraud.
Feb-26-07 20:44:36 PST Report this comment
2308pitstoppenny
I believe it is the seller's responsibility to make sure the buyer receives their item. This means seller should package items extremely well for shipping.
Some sellers reimburse 100% (shipping fees included) for items damaged or not received. This is an excellent policy and good customer service. Those that don't and have packaged poorly are those I will not buy from again.
From my understanding, Pay Pal Buyer Protection has a $25.00 fee. For big ticket items, this is worth it. Only if there is money in the seller's account. For smaller purchases, insurance is much more cost effective. But then again, by paying with a bank card (even through PayPal), the buyer is 100% covered no matter what.
Both sellers and buyers need to consider what they are willing to lose if a package is lost or damaged. Shipping fees include the cost of mailers, boxes and bubble wrap so why not insurance? It's all part of the cost of doing business. I insure quite often even though I know, as a buyer using a bank card, I don't have to. There are a lot of frauds out there and sellers need to protect themselves too. When insurance is purchased, everyone wins.
Feb-27-07 13:06:39 PST Report this comment
sthrndeb
You have some good points but I have a lot of buyers who do not want to buy it. Most of my stuff are clothes and I have never had damage to them. I do wrap extremely well and tight packages so this hopefully will not happen. Also most of my items cost about $4.85 to ship with a delivery confirmation and they do not want to pay more.

One thing I have started to do is go to the USPS website a day or two after I ship it and check if it was delivered. If it was I email the buyer right away so I know they received it. I guess I am lucky as I have really wonderful repeat customers who always receive there stuff intact.

I have had some purchases that I have bought and paid insurance and when I got the package they never purchased insurance. Since I got it, how can I complain? They made an extra $1.35 but if I had not got it I have proof I bought insurance. A scam yes, but I am protected, and yes it saves a lot of problems later on.

I have also given money back and shipping if it is warranted. I believe in good customer service. However there still are a few who do this to get free stuff, I see it in a lot of feedback. So I guess it is a judgment call. I have also had customer say they did not get it and I send them the delivery confirmation and ask them please to check with the post office. All but one found they had got it and put it away and forgot about it.

I guess we all have to use our common sense and take each case as it stands. Working with people is always best but I still look at feedback to see if this is a common practice of there's. Sad but I won't be scammed either.

Have a wonderful evening
Feb-27-07 15:35:18 PST Report this comment
tjsttng
I have before have missed that the buyer have purchase insurance. I try not to miss this as this is very important to me to buy insurance when buyer sell it. When I realize I missed it the first time, I send a policy to myself that if any package was damage and I didn't purchase insurance because I missed it, then it is MY responsible to replace or refund. Buyer are counting on me to purchase the insurance from the post office. And one time, I had to replace when Flat rate priority box was damage. Personally, I think someone at the post office opened it up. She got a notice from post office say sorry for damage and she only have half of the products BUT the products that was missing didn't make sense. All the lotions was missing and not spray or shower gel and I started to think that is odd. If it was damaged and items fall out, then it would be by scent and not all lotions. I put them in order by scent of the set. I believe if buyer purchase insurance and seller did not purchase and it is damage, then seller need to replace or refund. First thing I do is check if they pay insurance and not.
Feb-27-07 16:13:22 PST Report this comment
accountaxprosvcs
I learned my lesson about insurance. If you sell something of significant value, say over $100, charge enough for shipment so as to cover the insurance. One comment in here is absolutely incorrect. Shipments made by sellers to buyers on eBay ship FOB shipping point, meaning the item shipped immediately becomes the property of the buyer once it is shipped. The reasoning is the seller has no control over the item and the buyer does because they are going to be in receipt of the item. Therefore, ownership immediately transfers to the buyer once the item is shipped.
Nov-17-07 11:21:01 PST Report this comment

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